Comparing Start9 and Umbrel for Electrum Server

Hey everyone, So I’ve really gotten into the whole crypto thing after buying a Ledger a couple of months back. I ended up running Electrum on some airgapped mini PCs, learning about how keys come from seeds, and even fiddling with psbt’s to see how they tick. Now I’m thinking about taking it a step further and running my own bitcoin node. I’ve got both Start9 and Umbrel set up to see which one I prefer, and they seem pretty similar. But since downloading the whole blockchain is a massive task, I wanted to get some input on the pros and cons before I commit to the big download. Here’s what I’ve noticed: 1. Umbrel appears to have a lot more features available, but I’m mainly focused on bitcoin, an Electrum server, mempool, and maybe some lightning stuff later, so Start9 seems to fit my needs better. 2. It looks like Umbrel has TOR as an option, while Start9 has it activated by default. I’m not really keen on having TOR running all the time, especially since Bitcoin Core doesn’t use it anyway. I guess there’s a way to turn it off in Start9 via the command line, but I'm worried it might mess things up. So based on that second point, Umbrel seems like the better choice, but I’d love to hear thoughts from anyone who’s used either one. Thanks, and sorry if this isn’t the right place to post.

With Start9 TOR is optional for accessing your server remotely, using an onion address provided by electrum. For local network access you don't need it, a LAN address is provided to you. I installed and run Bitcoin Knots with Start9 on a mini pc. I highly recommend Bitcoin Knots over Core. I have no experience with Umbrel. It took me little more than 1 day to download the blockchain with a very fast internet connection (1gbps). I would suggest upgrading your internet speed if possible if it's anything less than 200mbps, at least temporarily. Otherwise you could be waiting many days if not weeks, and if something goes wrong during the download you don't want to have to start all over again.

Thanks! So you can turn TOR off (I'm not sure how, but I can probably do it from the command line) without breaking anything? My internet is pretty fast, but I had a data cap that I just paid to get rid of, so I should be good. If I can do that I am leaning to Start9 over Umbrel. From what I can gather on the internet, Umbrel has more layers of containerization than Start9, so will probably be more complex to troubleshoot? I guess I could go with a basic Debian server, but I'm more interested in learning about Bitcoin than Linux sys admin. Why do you recommend Bitcoin Knots over Core? I didn't see it on the Start9 apps page, but obviously there is a way to install it as you have. I only peeked at Start9 for a hour or two so I'm sure I just missed it.

You have to manually install TOR on your client to use it with Start9, so no need to turn it off if you never installed it. Look under System-->About to find your LAN address to connect without using TOR. Bitcoin Knots is under the community registry menu. Click on "change" to switch to it. For more information go to the technical support forum.

Given your specific needs and concerns, Umbrel seems to be the better choice for you. You're primarily interested in Bitcoin, an Electrum server, Mempool, and potentially Lightning later, which both platforms offer. However, your preference to avoid running Tor by default is a key differentiator. Umbrel provides Tor as an option, while Start9 has it on by default, which aligns less with your desired setup. Although disabling Tor on Start9 might be possible, it could lead to unforeseen issues. Therefore, Umbrel's optional Tor configuration MyCardStatement makes it a more straightforward and suitable option for your specific use case.

I use neither, but there are few things i can clarify. Bitcoin Core actually support Tor, see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/tor.md. But you need to check with Umbrel or Start9 whether you need to configure Bitcoin Core manually to use Tor. I'm not sure what exactly you mean by get rid of data cap. But FYI, current Bitcoin blocksize is about 700GB. Looking at some discussion at Start9 website, it seems Start9 also use docker (one of containerization tool). Here's an example, https://community.start9.com/t/docker-error-no-space-left-on-device/2875.

Thanks all for the replies. I went with Start9, partly because the OS looked lower overhead and partly because the company appears to philosophically aligned with me and seems more bitcoin focused than personal home server. That said, here is what I learned: 1. It is non-trivial to use bitcoind and electrs without TOR on start9. Requires a bunch of under the hood linux stuff to enable. I actually haven't enabled it yet but it appears to be doable. 2. Start9 team seems to monitor their forums closely. I got a reply to a help post about this topic in just a few minutes. That is a big plus. 3. The start9 iso doesn't quite run on my minipc correctly. The kiosk mode doesn't work. That said, Tails linux doesn't run on that particular mini-pc either. Seems to be a video issue of some sort, but since Start9 can be installed without a keyboard and monitor, it still works. Seems pretty stable so far. Synced bitcoin and electrs in about 48 hours without a hicup. As long as I never need to hook up a monitor it is ok. 4. Seems that both products use Docker containers, however Umbrel itself runs in a container and then runs docker containers inside that. I think that in the long run, Start9 appears to have more flexibility once I learn to work with it. But the learning curve is steep. However, I think I still might switch to umbrel. The TOR focused nature of start9 is a concern. I'm not sure i want Tor running all the time. I live in the US and Bitcoin is pretty mainstream and nobody would blink an eye at a running bitcoin node. But I think that TOR is associated with much less savory activities and I am leery that running TOR 24/7 might have my ISP suspicious. The initial sync of the blockchain is pretty slow and uses a lot of data, so that is about the only thing keeping me from trying out Umbel for the moment.

Quick followup: Turns out it is actually pretty easy to configure Start9 to allow access to electrs and bitcoind over LAN and not TOR. In case anyone else is wondering. Works no problem. https://community.start9.com/t/how-to-exposing-electrs-and-bitcoind-over-lan-in-startos-0-3/754 As far as not running tor constantly, don't know yet if i can change that.

I recently put together an in-depth comparison of Umbrel vs. Start9 for my website. It might be useful for anyone trying to decide between the two: https://thebitcoinhole.com/vs/umbrel-vs-start9