All you need to know about BTC futures

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falcon_diamondFull Member
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#1Dec 25, 2018, 08:10 AM
With the launch of Bakkt Futures, I've noticed a lot of folks here asking what futures really are, or getting the whole idea mixed up, or just tossing around terms without clarity. I'm gonna try to break it down in this thread, keeping it as straightforward as possible, using real examples from BAKKT and CME bitcoin futures when I can, plus other cases. DEFINING FUTURES Futures are basically contracts that require the buyer (or seller) to purchase (or sell) an asset, which is known as the "underlying asset". This can be something like a physical good or a financial instrument, all at a set price on a future date. Let’s look at a quick example: If I buy a BAKKT future at 7,942.5, that means when the contract expires on October 17, 2019, I’m obligated to buy one bitcoin from Bakkt Warehouse for $7,942.5. The actual delivery happens the next day, October 18, 2019. I can trade this future until October 16, 2019. On the flip side, if I sell a BAKKT future at 7,942.5, it means that on the same expiration date, October 17, 2019, I have to sell one bitcoin from Bakkt Warehouse at $7,942.5. Here's a breakdown of the key dates related to a future: FTD (First Trade Date): when you can first start trading the future contract. LTD (Last Trade Date): the last day you can trade the future contract. FND (First Notice Day): this is when the exchange can notify someone holding a long future position about the delivery of the underlying asset (in this case, Bitcoin). This is also the first day the exchange can inform the seller about the delivery.
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fork2015Member
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#2Dec 25, 2018, 02:16 PM
Good thread, even though this isn't exactly Beginner material. No beginner should be trying futures just yet. They'd do better to learn more about the underlying tech, or buying directly from either an exchange or some other trusted individual or company OTC or P2P.
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falcon_diamondFull Member
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#3Dec 27, 2018, 10:54 PM
If you think there's a more appropriate section for this thread, please make a proposal. I understand what you mean, but this thread is meant to make everyone understand the mechanics of a future contract, it is not a financial advice. Probably adding a little disclaimer on the first post then. I will detail also how leverage on the future works, explaining why these are highly speculative instruments.
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DarkDefiMember
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#4Dec 28, 2018, 12:13 AM
Merit worthy thread, I've always been confused by futures and how they tie in to shorting and this makes it pretty clear.
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#5Dec 28, 2018, 04:07 AM
It might be better suited in the same section I had my thread regarding bakkt before it officially launched: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5186550 It got the most exposure for those who frequent the forums. Due to I almost didn't see your thread since I rarely check the beginners section and wouldn't think of advanced material should be a topic someone who is new to the forums and crypto in general would comprehend more or less be interested in to start of on.
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chr15_altMember
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#6Dec 29, 2018, 04:36 PM
I was not aware of this (bolded)! Thanks for the in depth explanation of the workings of these different systems. Now would you like to tackle and add the options on futures on cme? https://www.cmegroup.com/education/courses/options-on-futures-for-equity-traders/why-options-on-futures-gives-added-benefit-of-diversifying-risk.html
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falcon_diamondFull Member
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#7Dec 29, 2018, 07:12 PM
Options are a much more complicated issue. Lot of advanced math on these. Or even without math, if I try to explain “intuitively” lot of stuff to discuss. I can try, once I have finished this, if I have enough supporter on this issue. Let me know!
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an0nMember
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#8Dec 29, 2018, 09:08 PM
Hull Trading Company (acquired by Goldman Sachs in 1999) was very successful in trading with Options. very interesting topic too. The Wall Street Code - VPRO documentary - 2013 EDIT: follow up with an other good video about the Flash Crash 2010 - VPRO documentary - 2011 (had the "pleasure" to experience this event in may 2010 with a huge open position in EUR/USD as a Newbie ) EDIT2: Quants - The Alchemists of Wall Street - VPRO documentary
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chr15_altMember
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#9Dec 30, 2018, 03:27 AM
^^^--- Thx guys IOU both sM+ Maybe you should combine your efforts and make a guide for Regular Bitcoiners to understand the impact these new movers are and will be having on the markets.. Fucking h8 goldman Ballsacks! EdiT: This is a great video!
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sam2019Full Member
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#10Dec 30, 2018, 03:59 AM
I don't understand why you said nothing about the CoT (Commitments of Traders) ? It's very important in futures markets.
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falcon_diamondFull Member
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#11Jan 1, 2019, 05:48 AM
I said it is still work in progress. I will add this when I have described the more important things I have detailed in the OP. Adding to the list though.
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an0nMember
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#12Jan 1, 2019, 06:36 AM
it looks like it will become a full time job    take your time Buddy! all with some brain will be patient. btw, my "thank you" post got deleted by "Moderator: MiningBuddy".    unfortunately don't feel happy with Thermos private playground anymore and working on something for real Quants.
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CyberWhaleSenior Member
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#13Jan 1, 2019, 08:18 AM
Alright. I'm waiting patiently. I've been wanting to know and understand what futures contracts mean. I always hear about CME futures opening and expiry without having even the slightest idea about it. But thanks to your thread, I've gotten to know a thing or two. I'll be on the lookout for when you add new content.
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falcon_diamondFull Member
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#14Jan 1, 2019, 10:24 AM
Exactly. This is a beginner section posts, and books have been written of futures, and careers have been built on them. So I eventually have to draw a line on the sand! I don’t know how to do if I will ever dare into writing a similar post on options.
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p1x3l365Senior Member
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#15Jan 3, 2019, 06:43 PM
It is helpful if you can add a section that guides on how to get expired days of Bitcoin futures on different platforms, CME, CBEO, Bakkt. I do believe that Exprired days of Bitcoin future contracts have very big impacts on bitcoin price around those days. Price can move upwards or downwards considerably around expired days. Honestly, I have still not known how to get Bitcoin future contract's expired days. I much appreciate if you or anyone else can help.
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falcon_diamondFull Member
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#16Jan 4, 2019, 12:47 AM
Expiry dates are easy to find on the description of the contract: CME: So with a simple calendar of with some excel sorcery you can easily find why you are looking for. Tomorrow I will anyway provide you with a list of all the past expiries. EDIT:  here you go:    Ticker      Month      Last Trade      First Notice      First Delivery      Last Delivery      BTCX8   Nov 18   30/11/2018   30/11/2018   30/11/2018   30/11/2018   BTCZ8      Dec 18      28/12/2018      28/12/2018      28/12/2018      28/12/2018      BTCF9      Jan 19      25/01/2019      25/01/2019      25/01/2019      25/01/2019      BTCG9      Feb 19      22/02/2019      22/02/2019      22/02/2019      22/02/2019      BTCH9      Mar 19      29/03/2019      29/03/2019      29/03/2019      29/03/2019      BTCJ9      Apr 19      26/04/2019      26/04/2019      26/04/2019      26/04/2019      BTCK9      May 19      31/05/2019      31/05/2019      31/05/2019      31/05/2019      BTCM9      Jun 19      28/06/2019      28/06/2019      28/06/2019      28/06/2019      BTCN9      Jul 19      26/07/2019      26/07/2019      26/07/2019      26/07/2019      BTCQ9      Aug 19      30/08/2019      30/08/2019      30/08/2019      30/08/2019      BTCU9      Sep 19      27/09/2019      27/09/2019      27/09/2019      27/09/2019      BTCV9      Oct 19      25/10/2019      25/10/2019      25/10/2019      25/10/2019      BTCX9      Nov 19      29/11/2019      29/11/2019      29/11/2019      29/11/2019      BTCZ9      Dec 19      27/12/2019      27/12/2019      27/12/2019      27/12/2019      BTCH0      Mar 20      27/03/2020      27/03/2020      27/03/2020      27/03/2020
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sat_2018Senior Member
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#17Jan 4, 2019, 01:25 AM
Bitcoin is possibly more fungible then oil is an idea from reading that though I think oil when an oil oil field is established is then quite consistent in its quality and exchangeable as a barrel with most oil of that type.   Venezuela has this problem of oil which does not qualify for sale without refinement, that little detail has made them poorer sadly. Are they really obligated to buy, if BTC goes to $1 then the contract expires worthless surely.   It doesnt then become a liability where I owe 7491 in difference from the asset to what I promised to pay.   Or is that options Im thinking of.
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falcon_diamondFull Member
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#18Jan 4, 2019, 05:58 AM
You are obliged to pay. You actually have already have already paid it, as the exchange doesn’t wait until last day to ask you 7,941 USD: he rather ask you to cover the margins daily. This is something I am going to detail in one of the next improvement of the OP post.
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calmomegaSenior Member
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#19Jan 4, 2019, 10:15 AM
Please use your hands (or feet), regardless of your nicknames
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CyberAltMember
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#20Jan 4, 2019, 11:36 AM
OMG, im shocked, really its walls of text to explain one way of investing? I mean why there is need to create such complex ways of investing in Bitcoin world? Buying is best investment, why complicate things? Often its to confuse less bright or people less beign able to manage their funds, to make them make wrong decisions and loose money. I really don't like complicated instruments of investment, banks love to create them to steal money from customers over and over. Its really sad how many people falling for that.
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