Ray Dalio on Gold and Bitcoin: The Digital Gold Debate

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alex.shardLegendary
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#1May 16, 2024, 01:47 PM
Ray Dalio claims there’s just one real gold. I wonder if there are others who have compared bitcoin to gold before? Some folks might not really get that bitcoin is like digital gold. Nobody's outright saying bitcoin is gold, but they do say it serves as a store of value, which is a key trait of gold. Dalio makes a good point because he mentioned back in early 2026 that people could choose either bitcoin or gold. So he does see some worth in bitcoin too. But I disagree with his take on banks only going after gold. He said gold is the second most acquired asset by banks, and that they don't really want bitcoin. But here's the thing: banks have always had gold on this planet. Gold’s been around forever while bitcoin is just a baby, created in 2009, which is like nothing in the grand scheme. The US even has laws against selling their seized bitcoin. Plus, a bunch of countries are eyeing bitcoin as a reserve asset. It can't just happen overnight. At the end of the day, bitcoin is still a solid store of value.
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0xN0nceSenior Member
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#2May 16, 2024, 02:06 PM
As you have already mentioned, many tend to make use of digital as an illustration for bitcoin value, and how it is important for a future profitable investment, being a digital asset, we can use the term digital gold because of its increasing value, as is commonly known for gold, rising over time.
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mr_satoshiSenior Member
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#3May 18, 2024, 05:54 AM
The banks are under the government, and being under the government means they go along with what the government sees as accepted. That means that even if the banks in their financial analysis of bitcoins see it as an equivalent or even better store of value than traditional gold, they cannot acquire it because it is not considered accepted byt ehe government. With time, as expected, when Bitcoin gets accepted, I am certain that banks will consider an acquisition.
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its_viperMember
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#4May 20, 2024, 04:52 PM
Bitcoin is a thousand times better than listening to it. Because you don't know how much gold is in the world. If the supply of gold increases tomorrow, the price of gold will continue to decrease from tomorrow. Again, since gold is a physical asset, it can be destroyed, lost, stolen or burned. But since Bitcoin has a fixed supply and Bitcoin is not controlled by anyone and can be secured only by twelve faces. If you compare gold and Bitcoin, Bitcoin is much better in terms of profit. Gold requires storage, that is, space, but Bitcoin is an asset that if you have billions of dollars, you don't need separate storage to keep them. Bitcoin does not need a bank. That's why we especially think Bitcoin is better than gold.
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quantumbearHero Member
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#5May 20, 2024, 07:55 PM
If the central banks proposed to the government to make bitcoin part of the reserve, it will not take long that the government will accept but banks have phobia for bitcoin or anything that is part of cryptocurrencies. See what is happening in Brazil, one of the lawmakers proposed bitcoin reserve but their central bank governor is saying otherwise. The banks are in fair and many of the do not wish bitcoin to be used as reserve but only time will tell when some lawmakers and bitcoin a enthusiasts would win while not all new central bank governors will all hate bitcoin. GenZ and other coming generations will also be more bitcoin friendly.
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hodler_b34rFull Member
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#6May 21, 2024, 01:26 AM
About 2 decades is not a short time and it is a quite long time indeed, so Bitcoin has already gone through its hardest time in earliest years. Now it has been matured and strong enough to move onward very strong and well. Anyone who have any doubt, big or small, about Bitcoin just because it has a shorter history and age than gold, can read the following book and information on Lindy effect that implies a long existence one asset has, a stronger it will become and Bitcoin has been on this way with contribution from Lindy effect. https://vijayboyapati.medium.com/the-bullish-case-for-bitcoin-6ecc8bdecc1 https://www.amazon.com/Bullish-Case-Bitcoin-Vijay-Boyapati/dp/1737204118 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect
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yield_moonFull Member
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#7May 21, 2024, 02:40 AM
I don't see any of them replacing one another, because they both have their own uniqueness, but if we are talking about them, like which one is a better investment as of today, Bitcoin is a lot better because it still has a lot of potential, and is no where near it peak price, unlike gold that has been in existence since in the history of mankind. Over the past ten years, Bitcoin has been and has established itself as the most lucrative and the fastest growing asset if we are comparing it with other reliable asset out there, so I don't think that any of them is replacing each other here, because investment wise, it's just a matter of choice and interest of most investors before they decides on any of them to invest their hard earned money on.
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st4cks4tsFull Member
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#8May 22, 2024, 07:46 AM
Ray Dalio is a Bitcoin investor as far as I know. And he once suggested investors to allocate some of their funds to gold and even Bitcoin. So I personally suspect that he is waiting for Bitcoin prices to fall even further so that he can buy it at a lower price. And perhaps he hopes that gold prices will rise even higher. Buying valuable assets at low prices is a golden opportunity for rich people like Ray Dalio. And perhaps he is buying Bitcoin for gradual accumulation during the recent decline. On the other hand I doubt that someone like Ray Dalio is unaware of the banks' interest in acquiring Bitcoin (Source).
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its_cipherSenior Member
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#9May 22, 2024, 10:26 AM
Strictly speaking, there is no means of preserving value at all. Everything is volatile, even gold. Moreover, gold can lie at the bottom for decades. I think it's already clear about bitcoin - it's a highly volatile asset. One could argue that this is temporary and then there will be staggering growth. Yes, it will. But the time factor is very important. Not all people have the luxury of having years of waiting (bitcoin) or decades of waiting (gold). In other words, this "stored value" is unavailable for long periods of time, or simply turns into an illiquid asset for a while. A true store of value must be highly liquid at all times. The dollar is liquid, but it is subject to inflation. Real estate is also a very risky asset, which can fall in value dramatically, for example, if a war breaks out where the property is located (we will soon see an example of this with real estate in the Emirates). And so, it is impossible to find a real store of value.
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the_kingHero Member
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#10May 22, 2024, 01:52 PM
But in another source I once read Ray Dalio saying. In my understanding of Ray Dalio's statement he dismissed the idea of ​​Bitcoin as digital gold, to which he said “there is only one gold.” Because Dalio found no real reason for central banks to buy Bitcoin and hold it long-term, in his statement Dalio cast doubt on Bitcoin, even though it is valued as a store of value asset.
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1t5_omegaHero Member
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#11May 23, 2024, 08:16 PM
Although I can see a hypothetical future scenario in which Bitcoin mostly replaces gold as a store of value, I have to admit that gold bugs now have more compelling arguments to deny it. First, because if we look at the profitability of gold vs. Bitcoin over the last five years, Bitcoin loses out, with a 47% return vs. 211% for gold. And keep in mind that we are talking about five years. Also, because there is increasing demand for tokenized gold, competition is also occurring in the digital realm.
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stack_laserFull Member
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#12May 23, 2024, 08:52 PM
Bank are the major problems that Bitcoin has in terms of exposure and public acceptance of Bitcoin, not government or other financial institutions like mortgage or insurance companies those are very friendly with Bitcoin and some of them even have Bitcoin reserves. Bitcoin will not leave you to 4 decades before this whole thing with bank changes, and alot of Banks will start holding Bitcoin as reserves, is always hard and tough at the beginning of every financial tools even gold faces similar segmented attacks before gaining trust and ground.
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gmfrensFull Member
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#13May 24, 2024, 01:23 AM
In many ways bitcoin differs from gold and there are several obvious reasons why banks relate more with gold than the do with bitcoin and the primary of them all is the fact that bank is a centralised institution that's register by the government to  a large extent and so, relating with a decentralised stuff like bitcoin will naturally seems deficult. Bank didn't exist at the same time the world started but because it's something that the government accept, it's just natural that it gains their acceptance more easily. Bitcoin doesn't need that acceptance because it's decentralised and even in the long run, it relevance and level of adoption is going to be more dependent on those that are enthusiastic about it and not the stand of the government or wether or not it's going in the same direction with gold.
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alpha_maxiFull Member
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#14May 24, 2024, 02:31 AM
Yes, I think that for gold it is probably important to have some numismatic value in addition to the metal value - e.g. a Saint-Gaudens or double eagle vs just an ounce coin.  Because unlike for bitcoin, there is always the chance - and it may not be for 50 or 200 years that it is possible- that someone could find an asteroid or other huge deposit of gold which would greatly impact the price.
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humblefarmSenior Member
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#15May 24, 2024, 02:44 AM
The summary of Ray Dalio perception is If he is judging gold and Bitcoin with the recent wars and tariff spat caused by Donald Trump, he is right. Gold performed better than Bitcoin as a safe haven for investors this season. But he should also consider the performance of Bitcoin during Covid 19 pandemic.   Bitcoiners know what to do to make a transaction private. His reiteration of the quantum computer threat to Bitcoin shows that he is not well informed about recent developments.
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pixel2014Hero Member
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#16May 24, 2024, 05:49 AM
I do not know what he wants to bring out from the private transaction of bitcoin because gold has been stolen several times in history and government has consficated physical gold several times in history despite that the transaction of physical gold is anonymous to him. Also despite that some bitcoin have been confiscated before and some also have been stolen, there are some that remain untraceable.
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gw31_2021Full Member
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#17May 24, 2024, 08:20 AM
The way I phantom the statement "Bitcoin is a digital gold" Is that the sentence is metaphysical, it depicts Bitcoin as having some characteristics of gold such a being a valuable asset and a store of value. Before people starts to dispute any fact, they should know that there is no real fact anywhere and there's no need to argue something that is obvious. Bitcoin is a valuable asset and that's an obvious truth, it's a store of value and can serve as mean of exchange in trade. The obvious is not hidden, Bitcoin is as valuable as gold in today's world, majority of people wants to have as many Bitcoin as possible, like up to 100s of Bitcoin but it's not easy, some people are even battling to get 1 single Bitcoin and yet not still possible, even half of it has not been own by many people, so people use all of those instances to say Bitcoin is a digital gold.
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dav3v1perSenior Member
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#18May 25, 2024, 08:00 PM
The mistake he makes is that he is one of those who see Bitcoin as something that has come to replace gold. I don't think any sane person believes that. Gold would always be relevant and would always be the go-to safe haven. It is an asset that has existed for as long as human history has been recorded, so an innovation that is still minor (if it were human) would not replace it just like that. Cities have been built and burned for it, it has once been the most valuable thing in the world, empires have colonised and marginalised people for it, the Vikings even crossed ruthless seas to murder people for their gold, currently, countries have massive reserves of it, and it is still valuable for jewry and other expensive stuff, so anybody with a thinking brain should know Bitcoin won't come to knock it off the top just like that. However, what I find funny is how convenient people talk about how Gold is performing better than Bitcoin in recent months. When you look at the numbers, you would see that for most of Bitcoin's existence, it has performed way better than Gold, but now that Gold is performing better, suddenly everybody talks like Gold has always performed better than Bitcoin. I understand that the asset that performs better does not determine which is a better store of value. It is one that still maintains the same value or higher after a long period of time, and Bitcoin checks that box, too. So, even though gold might be a better store of value, Bitcoin is also a store of value.
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cyberviperFull Member
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#19May 25, 2024, 09:53 PM
If we ask Google how much time gold took to be used as a set worldwide, or even how much time it took to be adopted worldwide, the answer came 2500 to 5000 years specifically. The process was this long, then here we are juding bitcoin who is just 16 years old. That's not a fair comparison, don't you think? Although Ray Dalio is a smart investor, after reading your post form other forum, I read more about him, and I find out how intelligent he could be but I don't know as intelligence could be bought if you have money so I would not say much, but what he said, about bitcoin and gold, that only one should be acuqired by one person, coming this from someone with his stature even might matter for those who listen to such billionares but in reality Idgaf. Sorry but that's true, whatever he say, I am still in.
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quantumbearHero Member
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#20May 26, 2024, 04:05 AM
I do not think he sees something as something that comes to replace gold, he is saying the reality to me but he made some mistakes. I still like the fact that he says that bitcoin is a valuable asset that people can use to hedge against inflation. Just know that a time will come that banks will also buy more bitcoin.
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